God TV – a critical assessment

God_tv_rorywendyA further discussion on God TV can be found on this blog written in May 2015 survivingchurch.org/2015/05/05/god-tv-blessing-or-scam/

For some time Chris has been urging me to watch the God TV, a British television station run by Christian Communications. My excuse for not watching has been that my television (Freesat) does not have it. Needless to say it is not difficult to find these broadcasts online, so it is probably laziness that I have not followed up Chris’ invitation, together with a visceral dislike of ‘Christian’ broadcasting. I finally got round to watching a little when Chris alerted me to a scandal that has broken in the past few months, the departure of one of the founders of God TV following a ‘moral failure’ during the past 12 months. Apparently the founder, Rory Alec is now living with a woman, not his wife, in South Africa. His name no longer appears with that of his wife, Wendy, as one of the directors of the enterprise.

Having finally gritted my teeth to watch a little of this broadcasting which apparently goes all over the world, I found it to follow a fairly predictable pattern in many ways. Being rooted in the theology, known as Health and Wealth Gospel, it is all about persuading the viewer that God wants them to possess the blessings of plenty, wholeness and success. The presentation is slick and the presenters are well dressed and superficially attractive. For me, this whole way of selling the Christian faith arouses considerable distaste. I find that the type of showmanship that is combined with this broadcast preaching makes me feel somewhat nauseous. There is little attractive about the make-believe sugary world that the viewer is offered. People are being encouraged to think that the sending of money to the television station will enable them to sort out all the problems in their lives. They will then have the same ‘miracles’ which are being enacted by the likes of Benny Hinn in America. An internet search on this particular man will show considerable interest by mainstream evangelicals in America questioning both his theology and ministry claims. Any study online of individuals who conduct television ‘ministries’ leads one to conclude that the ‘Gospel’ is being regularly milked to provide the maximum financial benefit for the organisers. I do not, in fact, know of any reputable church leader who has used the medium of television for honourable ends. Perhaps one of my readers can tell me if there is in fact a place where one can view wholesome material.

To return to Rory Alec and his ‘moral failure’. Chris believes that this failure will discourage thousands of vulnerable people who have come to depend on God TV as their spiritual home. Their faith in the founder, and through him in God, will waver when they see him disappear from their screens and their lives. My own reaction is more sanguine. Other television ministries in America have survived scandals, such as those affecting Jim Bakker and Jimmy Swaggart. Their television channels have continued, albeit somewhat reduced for a time. Already I have looked at the comments columns connected with the ‘scandal’ and already earnest Christians are telling Rory that God will forgive him and is willing to restore him. Returning to his wife is, in fact, apparently not an option so the tidy solution of repentance and restoration that they would like to see, is not going to happen. In other words the typical supporter of Rory Alec is unable and unwilling to process what has actually happened to their hero.

What is it about tele-evangelists that open them up to moral failure that causes their down-fall? But before attempting to answer this question, I would comment that, from my perspective, the twenty years of preaching the Health and Wealth Gospel to tens of thousands of vulnerable people is by far the greatest moral failure in Rory Alec’s life. Enriching himself at their expense and offering promises that cannot be met, is just as intolerable as abandoning his wife for another woman. It is strange how sexual sin is always portrayed in some Christian circles as the worst possible kind of sin. It is of course serious but there is something equally bad in betraying people, cheating them by taking their money and cynically creating in them a dependence on a version of Christianity that at best is corrupt and at worst a cynical perversion of anything that Jesus stood for. The viewers of God TV have been thoroughly let down long before Rory Alec decided to leave his marriage.

I have already indicated in a previous piece on my blog the reasons why I believe that the sexual exploitation of women is a constant theme in some churches with a charismatic flavour. The reason for this, in summary, is because the leaders of these church become addicted to the exhilarating sense of being at the centre of the power generated by the worship sessions. It is but a small step to becoming addicted to power for its own sake. This blog has before explored how power addiction generally expresses itself in three ways, sex, money and being the constant centre of attention. Some leaders stray into all these areas. It seems appropriate to these leaders, in their power-obsessed consciousness, to feel entitled to all the trappings of power – wealth, adulation and constant access to sex. The psychological drama that is being worked out in this scenario is one that I have written about before, and it concerns both addiction and a diagnosis of the personality disorder involving narcissism.

The ‘scandal’ of the God Channel is then, in my perspective, not just the moral failure of the founder going to live with another woman. I would indeed be surprised if such episodes had not occurred before and the gossip mill does suggest this to be the case. Sexual misbehaviour in this type of charismatic environment goes with the territory. The greater immorality, and indeed evil, is the drip, drip undermining and exploitation of the naivety and idealism of countless would-be Christians. They have been and continue to be betrayed by such men and women of God. Their desperation and longing for help of various kinds is being ruthlessly taken advantage of. Chris tells me that he knows personally some of these people and their situation is tragic and sad in the extreme. This blog would love to do something to help them.

About Stephen Parsons

Stephen is a retired Anglican priest living at present in Northumberland. He has taken a special interest in the issues around health and healing in the Church but also when the Church is a place of harm and abuse. He has published books on both these issues and is at present particularly interested in understanding the psychological aspects of leadership and follower-ship in the Church. He is always interested in making contact with others who are concerned with these issues.

79 thoughts on “God TV – a critical assessment

  1. The tragedy of Rory and Wendy to me is no surprise.
    Of course they will see the Machiavellian hand of the Prince of darkness in all of this. Well he doesn’t have to try very hard when you consider the situations they put themselves in. They need to keep millions of pounds coming in, the strain of that alone is enough to seriously damage you. On top of that the constant appeals, pulling at the heartstrings of their viewers for more money. Their followers depend so much on these super heroes of ‘Faith’. Now after this tragedy has splintered this perfect world the followers will look for ‘answers’ well, there just won’t be any.
    There are no statistics available to show how many suicides are taking place in this area of abuse. I know of those who are trapped (or a better description would be imprisoned) in this thought process. They are condemned to mentally compute their addiction to things like God TV, inside a ritualistic mind-set that pushes their back against the wall till it is stuck there.

    The helplessness they find themselves in is beyond words.

    Thank you Stephen, great presentation, Chris

    1. I have been a christian since two weeks before my 15th birthday, I am now in my early sixties. Throughout my walk with the LORD, I have experienced worship in a number of churches and whilst I don’t always feel I get the “full package” according to my bible beliefs, I take my blessings where I can get them and I have had enriching and lasting life lessons sometimes from the most unexpected sources. However, I always seek to watch and listen with discernment which comes from having acquired a sound understanding of the God whom we serve. I have had a lot of comfort and affirmation of my personal faith through listening to various ministers on God TV. For example, Derick Prince and Chuck Missler are two of my TV teachers. I remember that some years ago a message by Charles Stanley, on God TV inspired me to take and pass an exam fo my job that I previously though was not within my capability.
      A critical assessment of the christian – tell me who could stand before the LORD if it was not for his Justification through his death on the cross – would reveal that none of us are worthy. And, while we seek to live Godly lives so the Word of God is not spoken ill of, and we are not said to be hypocrites, we falter and we fail. Something we seen recorded in the Bible so many times. Our “goodness” is not of ourselves it is of him who understand us so very much. He choose an adulterer and a murderer to be a man after his own heart. He used a harlot to save the spies and then included her in the earthly lineage of his Son. When others were afraid of Saul because of the murders and havoc he had caused in the early church, God said, I will keep him , I will use him. While we do not continue to “sin that Grace may abound” and we must be aware of false prophets and wolves in sheep clothing, there remains a place for forgiveness in this 21st centuary. Not ours, but God’s.David knew that his sin whilst fully known by all all Israel, was ultimately against God. Just because Rory Alec has faltered, does not mean that the blessings of this particular TV Ministry has gone forever.There are always consequences when we sin (that’s why God tells us not to, David suffered as a result and God told him, you ca’t build my temple because there is blood on your hands) But more than all the peoples in the world, Christians should know about the power of forgiveness and restoration.These things/sins ought not to be found in our lives but inn the words of our Lord “Go, and sin no more”

      1. There are various ways of interpreting Rory’s fall from grace. If you have invested a lot of emotional effort into supporting this television ministry, then you will want there to be reasons to find an outcome with which will validate your own trust in Wendy and Alec. I do not have that reason to support Rory or Wendy. I look and interpret what I see. What I see is a rather tawdry ministry that peddles on people’s dreams as well as their hopes and fears. The TV evangelists do not have a coherent message or one that stands up to scrutiny. I speak as I find. Rory Alec has not ‘faltered’. He has shown us the dark side of his motivation for doing this work which is to enrich himself at the expense of others. I may be wrong but for the time being I just have to disagree with you. A local church with all its warts may be a healthier place for you than a church of fantasy and dreams which is what is streamed out of our televisions.

      2. Anonymous, you are so right. I agree and I think we need to understand that just because some TV preacher fell, then that doesn’t mean the gospel is not true. God’s word works, it remains the same and He is still faithful, watching over His word to perform it…Unfortunately there are consequences of sin even though God forgives us….

      3. Preachers who believe that a Christian cannot lose his salvation are always the ones that fall from grace.So when temptations come, they fall for it because they have been deceived into thinking that your sins don’t count on the last day.
        Ask Rory and he will probably tell you about King David.
        But what a shame that majority of Christians have allowed themselves to be deceived by this interpretation, they putting their souls on the line
        he true believers know that the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom.

        1. In your version of events, it seems salvation can be lost quite easily. Im sorry, but not the salvation that Jesus bought for me. Who are you to judge who can lose their salvation, if Rory Alec’s fall from grace is worse than any lusting you may have had, if honest. Seems you are the one on dodgy ground.

          1. The truth of the matter is. ” the lord knows who are his” the only ones who are HIS. Will be with him at the end. ” you did not choose me but I chose you” believers have problems with this divine statement but it’s true. And by the way TRUTH is singular not plural……

      4. Believe in discernment a great but ignored gift from God, if we have it we can save our selves from the trap of Satan. Most of us don’t even recognize it is the trap of Satan,
        Let’s pray for the discernment of the Holy Spirit in our lives

        jesuslovesyouworld.wordpress.com

    2. God TV is just answering to its viewers desires in their mindsets.
      So to that end,we cant castigate them.
      Maybe Rory just got tired or overgrew this game.
      But for anyone seriously considering the Truth,then God has left many pointers if we are only willing to listen or look.

      We are the temples of the Holy Spirit.Effectively we look inward not outward.
      That’s our first point of awareness of God in us because in Him we live ,move and have our being. God never left because He is faithful Who promised He will never leave us nor forsake us.

      We are not looking to be blessed,but we are already blessed with all..Eph1:3

      Our easy yoke then is to be awake and alert of the obstacles which hinder our awareness of our God and our Spiritual nature by asking God’s help.

      When that log us removed from our eyes,the we will clearly see the speck in others eyes.

      Hence minding our Fathers ‘business as Jesus showed us Will make this world a better place by our demonstration of being the light.

    3. Reading all these posts with interest. I am an adulteress. However I was restored to my husband after seeing Jesus Christ in a dream and being commanded to return. I was not a Christian at the time and went back to an unhappy marriage. For seven years I sat in churches after that so unhappy so defeated, but nobody ever counselled or helped me. That was until 1985 when I was in one such church and accidentally read a book written by Nikki Cruz ….suddenly I believed because I recognized evil was real. The rest as they say is history…..but my help finally came through finding and watching god TV. I was so uplifting free and encouraged and I still feel the same today 2017. I have been married now for 47 years and give god all the glory. My husband is still not a believer and can still be mean nasty and plain horrible……

  2. Very sad.

    I am so pleased that nobody is succumbing to a “told you so” mentality on this – it is always so sad when things go wrong in Gods Church, whether it is the bit we agree with, or the bit we critique (or worse….).

    As an evangelical, – no as a Christian, I am unutterably sad to see damage to God’s reputation (in other words his Glory). We frail humans so often seem to find that horribly easy. When “my club” is at fault (not that I am in any way comfortable with God TV) I share the shame.

    I agree that what God TV presents seems to devalue the good news. But pretty much anything we try to do is going to sell God short let’s face it! Not that I’m giving up. That is what the Church is for after all – we have to say/show/be good news.

    For some bizarre and wonderful reason God has entrusted us frail believers with His glory. And we mess up (was tempted to use a 4 letter word there but that would have been unintentionally ironic). This then is not news.

    Just sad.

  3. Again I make the point regarding the followers. Let me put forward some of the questions they are asking.
    1) “If this God of yours is so great, how is it that you can fall away so easy for the love of another woman?”
    2) “He gave you an empire where you reigned like virtual kings. We would settle for a breadcrumb of the wealth that you have in your personal lives”
    3) “Where are the social requirements of what you call ‘the gospel’ being worked out towards us, you had Benny Hinn on your show, a man who lives in a mansion and has a private jet plane?”

    Perhaps some of the vast wealth that The God channel has accrued, can be put towards the victims whose mental health care is very expensive?

    Chris

  4. I guess not Robert. Back in the time Sinclair Lewis was writing about, it was easy to fool the public with a basic ‘smoke and mirrors’ routine.
    Today even with all the intricate modern tools at our disposal ‘Elmer’ still draws the crowd in! When you present a superhuman picture to the poor and undereducated, they want to grasp it with both hands.
    The English version of the God TV channel ‘Revelation’ TV is talking a lot about its ‘Enemies’! Just to hold a different reading of scripture to them makes you their enemy. They will not dialogue with those concerned about their position on the bible. Where is their mercy?

    Chris

    1. Chris & Robert: It’s AMAZING that in every Generation or even Decade there has been some voice crying in the wilderness calling “preacher’s playboy evangelist” and NO one heeds or listens. Benny Hinn has a lot to answer for in how he marketed HIS gospel and lives the lifestyle and has hirelings, wolves, false doing/following same item like Rick Warren (marketing of their books, making themselves on bestseller book charts). Contact Trinity Foundation in Dallas, TX for what Hinn owns, worth (that’s not what’s hidden and in other people’s names, that could apply to any Charleton’s).
      Nothing gives it away more than the lifestyle. Leonard Ravenhill “Why Revival Tarries and “America Is Too Young to Die”; was a brutal correction to the so-called church and America and has anyone heeded? Very few, spoken of the number of few who make and find it in the Bible, do that study. This is offensive but God loves true. Whore takes money and screws the people (much of the false church/leadership). It’s really sad that had to read of “satanic” preacher in TX who refused to do a 93 year old woman’s funeral on this blog and no one in his church can discern he is evil in regards to Blaze/Guardian articles back in November 2014. EVERYONE should have exited in that and many churches like, because his heart was revealed and he could do the same to them or anyone in church but he wants your $ to be kept in his lifestyle (agree with he should serve time in jail/prison). IF, the U.S. House/Senate would change what a 501c3 is and NO Preacher/Priest/Evangelist could make a living off Gospel/church or collect Real Estate, Land, Ranches, Housing, Businesses, what own Overseas and how many would stay and or go into ministry? Problem with that is they made millions off people. It would be nice if it was seized and the money given back to the people that thought they were giving God money which HE NEVER GOT, nor the poor, homeless, orphans, fatherless, widows etc., it went to the used car salesman selling his religion, he expects you to pay his mortgage, children’s education (private at that) his/her’s lavish homes, vacations, gross a use of money but they will NOT help you as you lose your job/home. It’s pretty bad when Africa/S. Africa is screaming foul and telling U.S. church/preacher’s WE DON’T WANT YOUR PROSPERITY GOSPEL over here in our country. People better wake up. I think Jha Swarna Internet Broadcast of the American false church is highly prophetic. When hard times come, where are your preachers going to be? People (sheep) found out they didn’t help them last hard recession. How many corrupt church leadership is selling people out to the New World Order? Battle Hymn by John Secura & Dane Phillips covers some in Chapter. Wake up and get unbrainwashed; think for yourself and research a matter. Pagan Christianity by Frank Viola ( green copy) exposed lies of the church really well also.

  5. I have come to the conclusion that many, if not most, people want to be “safe”. Probably in the simple sense, but that’s not what I mean. We do not, it seems to me worship a “safe” God. Christian faith is not safe, it is upsetting. I remember being part of a discussion in a training group as to whether the church is an ark, a place of safety, or a lifeboat, ie, going to rescue people. But although it can be both, it seems to me it is also neither. More like a coracle adrift on a great sea. If the local church preaches the gospel in truth, thoughtful people will begin to notice that it is dangerous. A relationship with God can lead to persecution. You have to fling yourself into his arms off cliffs! (Not, I hasten to say, literally, I really don’t have faith sufficient for that) And the answers to many questions are “I don’t know” or “I’m not sure”. That simply doesn’t suit most people. And trying to make faith rational and self consistent is hard work. Most people want it easier than that. I don’t mean to be unduly critical. But a church that says, “This is what you should believe, end of” would be a great comfort in an uncertain world. Follow it up with, “This is what you should do”, and you’ve got it made. The Moonies get people on the streets raising money for them before they have made a commitment. They teach them the lines, show them how to get money by deceit. Then they have them. Who wants to admit they were foolish enough to spend several days telling lies in order to raise money for a bunch of crack pots? Solution, they’re not crackpots, they’re genuine. Ta, dah! One more convert, trapped. I don’t know the answer. Maybe we should do better in the love department? That’s always a good advert.

  6. Thanks EnglishAthena, The trouble with most of todays christianity is that ‘safe’ means security within a society (English) that approves capitalism and ambition. If you or your son or daughter rises to a position having authority over others, it is often seen as God’s blessing, and no one questions what he/she is doing to fellow human beings? We as Christians have to move on from this. I fear that it will take a lot more soul searching and pain.
    Peace,
    Chris

  7. Appreciate your article. What is wrong with us as Christians in general that we need to throw our hard earned money and rob are families of time and money that we give to men/women and NOT question what they own, worth and where the $ goes and who they help; we just give and don’t question?
    To answer your question, I don’t know of any Christian broadcast that is worthy of any person watching. Jezebel wants name in lights, name on the billboard, look at me, they should take their hand and give themselves those backslapping atta boys. Charismatic Movement HAS A LOT to answer for. Why so much perversion in Christendom? One reason, religion isn’t of God, it’s man=carnal, flesh etc., also, said this for YEARS, if you give money to TBN, Benny Hinn you’re a brainwashed idiot that cannot, will NOT and choose NOT to think for yourself (any of those used car salesman selling their dead religion that TBN parades before the people and who do they help but themselves with their over 60 homes and the lifestyle. Just read that in 6 page article that Los Angeles Times did 9/19-20/2004 by William Lobdell exposing the corruption in TBN and Paul’s homosexual Liason that also Trinity Foundation in Dallas, TX took public also. Just Google: “Onward Christian Soldier” by William Lobdell, read his book, “losing My Religion”. Trinity Foundation also has DVD’s on exposing Benny Hinn. Read John Bloom’s article on corruption on Hinn along with David Wegener’s (Hope for America Ministries) wonderful DVD of “false prophet” exposing names doing drugs in the Board Room and he still has a following after all those Dateline Expose, SO VERY SAD. Many men have told me they had to work two jobs why their wives (who are out of order) sending $ to TBN/Hinn (God have great mercy on all their souls). Elmer Gantry is alive and well in the U.S. Round Table of Men to report church abuse knew all this and more since early 2000. Trinity Foundation has tried to expose Joyce Meyer, so many just contact Pete Evans and or Ole Anthony. Look at the exposure of Jim Bakker in “Don’t Call Me Brother by Austin Miles” you NEVER heard about the homosexuality in the news or our leadership or Christian magazines, amazing. Toxic Faith by Stephen Arterburn was a good read also. More later.

    1. Thank you WOW for your comments and also notes of resources. Once again it is interesting how much more stuff there is on your side of the Atlantic while we in Britain have so little, comparitatively speaking, in the UK. My interest in Trinity, Brentwood and now God TV is in part because they are UK based. I feel somewhat isolated in some ways in talking about these issues but the sheer volume of material in the States on critiquing this culture and the awful tales of the damage it causes to individuals makes me think that it is important to persevere even though ‘respectable’ educated Church leaders seem to ignore the massive damage that is being caused here. It damages not only the lives of individuals but also the reputation of the wider church. Many people associate ‘church’ with all that is irrational and crack-pot. I shall at some point want to address the issue of how this descent into ‘craziness’ began. The charismatic movement in its more anarchic manifestations has a lot to answer for.

  8. What upset me about God TV in the U.S. Is people were attending the Florida Conferences without judging fruit, and RESEARCHING a matter Brownsville/Todd Bentley endeavors (leadership also); (I can’t throw stones). People who considered themselves Apostolic/Prophetically gifted flocked to these conferences and NO one could discern; they just went to be where they thought God was? Some person in California wanted to hold meeting in hotel room like he had the authority/mantel to pass/give and bless the audience with Florida Anointing; puke, vomit and throw-up. Know the person who called David Wilkerson and he shut it down same day and God TV was apologizing and Joyner justifying, WHATEVER! Where are Governing Authority Men like D.W. now? Also, there was this so-called Pastor in So. Calif., who fled to Florida who wouldn’t submit to correction mandated NOT WHO he picked when had moral failure; see that he has made England now a place to preach! People tithe and attend without researching a matter just like so many false churches in U.S. By the way, Google Jackie Alnor’s interview of Crouches Grandaughter who was talking about and exposing corruption in/at TBN that trying to put a cease/gag order to shut her up (Bill/Jackie Alnor and sites. Jackie did a great article on exposing Joel Osteen and he still has a lot of stupid sheep following him, I’ve been stupid). I agree with friends and an article read (will reference later) that the church is Revelations 17 & 18 (we don’t want to see or acknowledge the church is/has been the whore riding the beast and to come out of her as in Rev 18:4. Worse, so many churches that wanted to be prophetic were actually murdering them metorphically speaking and some physically. Those two chapters are offensive but current picture of the false church today, so few true Matthew 7:13-14.

  9. Chris, this is the first I have come across your site and I find it refreshingly thoughtful in searching out the truth. Thank you!
    My comments on those who use God for their own despicable ends:
    The Bible continually asks us to be vigilant. By this I believe it means to NOTICE the small things which immediately flush the decievers/ charlatans out.
    For instance: The Bible is specific when it says: ‘Call no-one Father except Our Father in Heaven.’
    A tiny observation but a glaring point once realizing, the God channel has preachers calling themselves: father ‘so and so’ (I can’t remember their names) So do some churches. A tiny observation but a real revelation in that… they obviously do not preach the True Gospel since they ignore that specific Law of God.
    The Bible also states that women cannot be preachers. There are a few women preachers on the God channel not to mention the main churches deciding to allow female vicars/ preachers now… in total opposition to God’s Word /teachings.
    Also, when it comes to ‘The true Church’ … the Church started by the disciples after the death of Christ Jesus and is still in existence today … none of the main churches recognise the Saturday Sabbath which was to be kept Holy TILL THE END OF DAYS. It was not done away with/ replaced by the New Covenant following the death of Christ Jesus as many would have us believe.
    And no, I am not Jewish; I am British as were both of my parents so my belief in Saturday Sabbath does not stem from my nationality or upbringing which was C of E.
    It stems from properly studying The Original Word of God after first asking God in prayer for guidance towards His Truth. God does not change. His word today means exactly what it meant from the very beginning. God doesn’t do ‘fashionable’.
    God’s last day of creation was Saturday; not Sunday and God commands us to rest on His last day of creation; as He did; the Fourth Commandment. We are commanded to do no buying or selling or work of any kind on Saturdays; not even our animals are permitted to work, or even housekeepers to buy shopping.
    When God fed the Israelites on route to the Promised Land, He allowed them to collect Manna for 6 days only, and on that 6th day they were permitted to collect enough for the 7th day also. So, they were not permitted even to collect food (Manna) on that 7th day … Saturday.
    You might question the role of Carers today then but, God in His wisdom further adds to keep this commandment except it be necessary to save a life/ lives… acts of mercy which God Himself says He would have done on the Sabbath.
    On that day, Saturday … not Sunday the first day of the week … we are also to remember The Exodus when God led the Israelites out of Egypt through the Red Sea to safety.
    Saturday Sabbath was changed to Sunday by the Romans in about 70AD … anyone can find this out to be true for themselves from history or the web, and the RCC openly admits it to be the case.
    Peter’s (the disciple) wording of the verses concerning, the weekly Sabbath are confusing causing many to believe that this is one of the reasons The Bible contradicts itself; which it does not. This becomes evident when Peter’s words are rightfully taken in the context he intended.
    God is a God of ORDER, peace and simplicity.
    Satan is a god of chaos, unrest and confusion… a jumbler of words!
    Which leads us to the subject of Tithing which you mention.
    God asks us to Tithe of our financial excess /gains (Profits) nothing more.
    Most ordinary folk these days have barely enough to manage on from week to week and God in His mercy and unfathomable love does not expect us to encounter deeper suffering, financial hardship and debt in order to pay Tithes to Him as long as we give God the first/ best 10% of OURSELVES to Him. A sort of: First Fruits.
    God says: ‘Render to Ceaser what is Ceasar’s’. So, God in His infinite wisdom knows that, by the time we have paid all the taxes due and utility bills and basic food bills and travel expenses and every other expence necessary to sustain our daily lives, there is very little left… certainly no profits; excess.
    And so of course, the burning question we should perhaps all ask ourselves these days is: Who should we actually pay God’s Tithes to in order that they are used for the purposes God intended …hum?
    Certainly not those pretending to act /speak on God /Jesus Christ’s behalf.
    We should seek out The True Church … those who stick to the original words of The Bible and proclaim that Truth in all corners of the earth.
    After much diligent scrutinising, I have recently found one in particular on the web and so far, I have found no words against them from any quarter. So far, they appear reputable.
    Chris, please let me know if you find anything out about them which could put them in the same doubtful light as all the rest/ show them to be charlatans. WOW might be able to research them in America as he/ she has with the God TV people
    They are: Life, Hope and Truth. They have branches/ churches in UK and all over the world. Their finances are available for inspection/ scrutiny … unlike most other religious organisations.
    I believe they also go by the name: 2015 Church of God. International … or something like that.
    I receive a daily verse from them with links to their further study material and they appear to stick strictly to The Bible in its original message.
    Peace and love to you all

    1. Dear Bible Student

      you might like to think about John 5.16Therefore the Jews started persecuting Jesus, because he was doing such things on the sabbath. 17But Jesus answered them, ‘My Father is still working, and I also am working.’

      1. We see throughout the Gospels that it is Jesus himself who says that the Sabbath was made for man, not man for the sabbath.
      2. This quote above has been understood as a the reference to the Father and Jesus himself “still working”, meaning that Jesus sees the work of God in creation as ongoing. There is no “last day” of creation. In fact, Jesus calls us into a new development in the new creation of the Resurrection, and that is why we celebrate on Sunday as the day of the Resurrection.

      2 Corinthians 5.17So if anyone is in Christ, there is a new creation: everything old has passed away; see, everything has become new!

  10. I hope that we can apply ourselves to the deeper question about the ‘Bible’ and its use? As I have said many times previously, Jesus attitude towards the Old Testament was at times very ambiguous, and, He also said some very un – fundamentalist things for example “You have heard it said an eye for an eye?” When He said that “The spirit will lead you into All truth” I note that He did not say that it would be totally and for all time contained in a book? Please lets talk more about this? The God Channel at times seems to have declared war on reason! Peace & Love >Chris

  11. Dear haikosinonimine,

    Thank you for your comment.

    Indeed I do think about John 5:16 in that: I believe Jesus Christ was saying, man came before the Sabbath; not the other way round. The weekly 7th day Sabbath rest was given for all time… till the end of days … as a gift to man to honour as God Himself sanctioned and honours it, and as an example of what ‘the true church’ (Those who keep ALL of God’s commandments) will have when they enter His Kingdom … eternal rest in God.
    God is Lord of the Sabbath and only He can judge what constitutes the breaking of it.
    True, God is increasing His number by bringing those of the true church who obey All His commandments … including the 4th concerning the weekly Sabbath … into His Godhead so, God’s work will continue until the last day… the end of days. The last day was not at Jesus Christ’s ressurection.
    The new covenant did not replace the Ten Commandments (‘I came not to abolish the Law but to fulfill it’) instead I believe it was intended to write God’s commandments on our hearts; and why it was a new covenant, because the Israelites continually disobeyed the commandments written in stone and given to them by Moses.
    God gave the 7th day of creation (Saturday weekly Sabbath; the Catholic church changed it to Sunday) as a sign that He created all things because all those believing as much, would obey Him in keeping that day Holy and separate (His new creations you refer to) because He sanctified it. It is His Sabbath day rest for man that is to be honoured forever.
    I believe, the other reason Jesus Christ said, ‘The Sabbath was made for man etc’ is because He was saying, His sanctified Sabbath day rest was NOT ONLY for the Jews; but for all mankind… the Gentiles were following the disciples teaching by then.
    And, I don’t believe, Jesus Christ could possibly have been ressurected on the Sunday … that is a man made notion too.
    For proof, you might like to read what Jesus Christ said in answer to the disciples when they asked Him for proof that He was the Messiah.
    Jesus Christ said He would give them ONE SIGN ONLY and referred them to the length of time Jonah was inside the whale … ‘ exactly three whole nights and three whole days’ (Mathew 12:38-40) … 3 x 24 hours = 72 hours.
    Jesus Christ said, that He would be in the grave for the exact same amount of time as Jonah was in the belly of the whale.
    If Jesus Christ died on Friday (Man made Good-Friday) just before sundown and was resurrected on Sunday morning He would barely have been in the grave for 36 hours! Even if Jesus Christ was ressurected just before sundown on the Sunday instead of Sunday morning, that would still mean He had only been in the grave for 48 hours and not 72 hours as Jesus Christ stated He would be.
    It helps to know that God’s days are counted from sundown to sundown as 24 hours.(Genesis)
    Also, when Mary and Co went to the grave early Sunday morning, Jesus had already risen; they found His shroud empty.
    According to God’s Word, Jesus Christ was entombed shortly before sundown prior to the beginning of the High Holy day Sabbath (Not to be confused with the weekly Sabbath) Luke 23: 46-55, John 19:31. NIGHTand DAY 1.

    After the High day Sabbath the women purchased and prepared spices (Mark 16:1) before resting on the weekly 7th day Sabbath which started sundown Friday (Luke 23:56) NIGHT and DAY 2

    By this we must surely conclude that, Christ rose from the grave on Saturday; coinciding with His sanctioned, weekly Saturday Sabbath rest day (His example of our permanent rest with the Lord to come when we die), shortly before sunset. NIGHT and DAY 3 = exactly 3 nights and 3 days… as with Jonah.
    Food for thought … since God tells us ‘we cannot live by bread alone but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of our Lord’
    Peace and love to you all

  12. Chris, I was only replying to haikosinonimine’s comment on that belief of an easter sunday ressurection; which is in itself a theory.
    Was I not saying that, God is beyond ‘theoretical correctness’ myself by providing proof from His Truth, His Word?
    My understanding is that, God wants ‘theoretical correctness’ false doctrine reinstated as His Truth and why He had His Word recorded as the Bible in the first place.
    After all, I took it that your topic for comment is ‘the God TV channels’ and their commercial approach in order to make money despite their doctrines being based on half-truths; popular doctrine… those who tickle your ears for their own ends, it says in the Bible.

    Since I am new to your site, I have not read any of your previous topics/ statements/ questions so, I don’t understand exactly what you are referring to when you write of ‘applying ourselves to the Bible and ‘its’ proper use’… nor even your mention of fundamentalism.
    Perhaps I am mistaken in the aims / nature of your site; for which I apologise.
    Love and peace to all.

    1. Hi, Bible Student, and welcome. Stephen started this site in response to abuses by the church. Meaning, the whole church, not any particular denomination. He writes much about churches that seem to be abusive in their set up. But there is also the phenomenon of abuses occurring within churches that are not abusive in their structure, but it still happens. We have discussed that, too. We vary in our approach to Biblical scholarship, but it is fair to say we all take the Bible very seriously as “God breathed”. It was, by the way, the early church that made Sunday our “Sabbath”. They evidently believed that Sunday was the resurrection day. It does say in the Biblical accounts that it was the first day of the week. And for all Paul’s pronouncements about women preachers, he did put women in charge of his new churches. It’s good to have differences of opinion. It makes us all think, and work hard at what we believe.

  13. Thanks Bible Student,
    I am sorry if you missunderstood what I was saying. I speak as a former Fundamentalist. I think that grave difficulties arise when the Bible is held up to be the absolute ‘Word of God’. St Paul said; “We see through a glass darkly, we know in part” My comments on ‘Terrorisation preaching’ my help you to see more where I come from? Peace & Love to You, Chris

  14. Thank you and thanks also to English Athena.
    It is hard not to be fundamentalist when searching for and then endevouring to stick to/ live life in accordance with the Truth. More so when one considers how far away from even basic Bible truths the main churches have strayed in their current teaching, in order to be modern/ popular… bums on seats! … and why I do not attend any church at all.
    Love and peace to all

    1. A bit of sisterly advice? It’s really hard going it alone. Have you tried one of the large denominations like Anglicanism, and going to a large church? You can make a few friends in your own time. Hear some preaching. And you won’t be pushed into a corner the way you can be in a small group. It’s ok not to agree all the time.

  15. Thanks Bible Student,

    The word ‘Truth’ needs to be very carefully examined for example, Deuteronomy 19-21 reads ‘Show no pity eye for eye tooth for tooth’
    Mathew 5-38 reads ‘turn the other cheek’.

    Isaiah 1-11 tells us that God takes no pleasure in burnt offerings but in Exodus chapter 40 they are seen as a permanent ritual.
    Sooner or later we have to eat the apple of thinking for ourselves my friend. I say that as sensitively and honestly as I can.

    If the final result is to be love, ‘By your love will all men know that you are my disciples’ then lets let the Holy Spirit lead us into all Truth?

    In the past professing Christians were burning and mutilating each other over the word ‘Truth,’ what a dirty rotten shame that was.
    Love makes all that impossible. Lets build the kingdom on earth, feed the hungry relieve the oppressed, visit the fatherless and widows.

    Peace Chris

  16. What is wrong with you people. I hear and see a lot of talk talk talk judge judge. Have you read your bible. Do you receive your guidance from the Holy Spirit. We are not gods. There is only one GOD and Judge. Its not us No where in Jesus’s sermons does he teach what you are preaching. GOD BLESS and Please do not speak against our brothers ans sisters. GOD is a GOD of signs wonders and miracles. God does ask us to tithe and blesses those who obey. GOD TV is being lead and run by the Holy Spirit and Chris anyone can twist scripture….ok but seriously your tone and “I’m not surprised” quotes are simply about you and your ego/pride. How do I know, because the Holy Spirit.

    1. Anonymous, God TV is not run by the Holy Spirit. It is run by the television networks and other human beings. When the name God is used, it doesn’t automatically mean that the Holy Spirit is involved. I think you might try to be a little more discerning and perhaps not so easily taken in by smooth talkers.

  17. Anonymous, Thank you for you reply, yes I have ego and pride. All I can say is this ; I work with my conscience activated and constantly examined. If you would like to bring up one point at a time and go through the mechanics of logic I will most certainly try to work with you.
    Peace & Love
    Chris

  18. Hi Chris … I don’t really know how to comment except to say, I’m sad that ‘anonymous’ sounds almost venemous as apposed to purporting to speak through The Holy Spirit in his/her comments here.
    I hope they take up your invite to clarify/ satisfy the issue/s.

    Peace and Love

  19. Yes, indeed. If people are talking about unkindness, then the comments are going to be quite strong. That seems reasonable. I always worry about people who overuse the shift key. I hope we can engage in discussion, but we shall see. All the best, Chris, don’t beat yourself up.

  20. Thanks Friends, Don’t lets be too hard on Anonymous, he is after all ‘protecting’ the tradition that he has been schooled in. I’ve been there, and let me say its a very unloving place, for the believer, and his or her target groups. The one thing you don’t get is Peace? Lets join together in wishing him Peace and Love. Chris Pitts

  21. Anonymous

    Yes you maybe right about us all crawling out of the same sewer and needing redemption, however, I find your defense of Rory Alec somewhat selective.

    What about the suicides, depression illnesses and confusion among the victims of this multimillion-pound industry. Have they phoned one of their supporters and offered them counseling?

    I might be flushed down Satan’s toilet one day but this I know: “Many will come to me on that day and say Lord, Lord we did many mighty works in your name, and I will say I never knew you..”

    I wish you Peace

    Chris Pitts

    PS I gladly stand up for the victims under my birth name.

  22. Anonymous
    Went on your link. I did not understand a word of it (That is the truth). Again I ask you to bring up specific points to discuss.
    Let us get to know YOU… I’m a Friendly sort of person, I want the best for you man Cosmically!
    Peace Chris

    1. I didn’t play any vids. But claiming that their prophet has performed all those miracles upsets disturbs me somewhat. Who is he? He is referred to only as “Prophet”. I’m wondering how many bad things happened on the days highlighted! Anonymous, please remember that “stuff happens”. And that two things happen at the same time does not prove that one causes the other. After all, you might just as well claim that the snow fall caused your prophet to pray, or to change his travel plans. And then there’s all the bad things that happened in New York that day. It’s the murder capital of the world! The mother of a murdered man may decide your prophet caused his death, because it was on the same day as the prophet’s arrival. It really really doesn’t work like that.

  23. Dear Bible Student:
    Please read When Women Were Priests by Karen Jo Torjesen and 10 Lies The Church Tells Women, and Lies Men Believe by J. Lee Grady (a man). Note: Power of the Blood by H. Maxwell Whyte (note awakening/renewal happened because of 5 what?, doing what? Or our current would call it Revival in England no less). Caves of Pain by Gordon Aeschliman references 3 Great reads, can’t recall them all. Women at the Crossroads by another Torjesen/son (haven’t read yet). Fuchsia Pickett had some great reads and I would consider her an Elijah type in a woman (have to hear her prophetic message to the church June 1990 and saw her speak). Other famous woman will list later, don’t have there correcting spelling that “moved and touched the world”.
    I’m NOT a feminist, and I had to crawl out out of that pit of Lies and wrong teaching about woman in ministry (Paul said he kept the traditions of men). Again, David Wilkerson wrote his Troublemakers In the Church Article 6-2007 mainly over 1 woman.
    Stephen Parsons: someone called referred “thegreycoats.wordpress.org, it’s the comments, article is good refers to other sites, feedback is wonderful.

  24. Sometimes the Kaleidoscope of opinion on the nature of God is like a third world war going through my brain.
    Can we decide please Anonymous if you just want a literalist bible discussion on this, or are we open to other reasoned discussion?
    Also I get a headache when there are two people calling themselves ‘Anonymous’ as I don’t know where the points of emphasis are!
    It’s like trying to climb a mountain laden with banana skins. Also there is something damnably Un English about it!
    This confusion is driving me toots up the maypole.

    Chris

  25. For what it’s worth, I don’t think that salvation can be “lost”. It is always sufficient. (I wish I could work out the italics on this site). And God never abandons us. But we can always walk away. There is a degree to which God will come after us, like the good shepherd he is. And he is always, always waiting for us to come back (the prodigal son). But we can turn our backs on God, we are still free.

  26. Thanks EnglishAthena,

    I like your wording, great way to put it!

    If God “Leads” us into all truth, and if we, “see through a dark glass”
    Then we must trust it to St John that, “God IS love” and leave the wrangling of scripture verses to those who love fighting.

    Happy new year,

  27. remember the woman caught in adultery,my my there is some stone throwing go to my web site http://www.marmitemonk.com and listen to the song what would Jesus do?and then remember to restore one another in love,remember RESTORE MEANS TO PUT BACK TOGETHER.take heed brothers and sisters.
    regards
    marmitemonk

  28. Dear Derek, Haven’t got a clue what your point is! Sorry if that makes me thick. Could you set out clearly what you want to say, for example who is throwing stones, what do we need to take heed of, and how can ‘Christian music’ help us? You have a good web site and the song is good however, I spent many years as a ‘Christian’ song writer myself and now see IT as part of the problem.

    Sincerely,

    Chris

    1. Chris
      dear brother my point is quite simply that to criticise,judge or condem Rory Alec,or any other brother or sister should not be part of the christian agenda.one of the troubles with the church is that they welcome the sinner but struggle with the prodigal.
      yours in his service.
      derek

  29. Dear Derek,

    Firstly let me thank you for your kind response.

    Let me start by saying that as a victim of abusive fellowships like the Shepherding movement and others, not to make a judgment on this issue is in my opinion sinful. You see Derek there is also the question of spiritual pride to consider in all this: 1) Do I sit back and protect the veneer of my own ‘ Holiness’ so that it doesn’t get chipped? Where I can say, ‘Look at me aren’t I good Jesus, I don’t judge people!’
    2) Or do I get out there in the mud and slag of it all and turn over a few tables? Jesus made a judgment and turned over tables, St Paul made many judgments on the Corinthians and on the place of women in the church!

    The lives and commercial activities of Rory and Wendy Alec must be brought into the light, even though they are victims themselves of a perverse and a cruel deception?

    Millions the world over came under their so-called ‘Ministry’! Vulnerable people, lonely desolate people, people with suicidal depression, and people on the lower working class looking for a way out of abuse in the work place, desperate for a better tomorrow!!
    The human misery they have left in their wake cannot as yet be comprehended!!?
    (See my web site > chrispitts.co.uk)

    The God Chanel has been instrumental in bringing about one of the vilest deceptions ever perpetrated on the Christian faith.
    It has normalized capitalist enterprise, Christian celebrity, and has a music business that condones ambition incentive and stardom!

    A mass betrayal of Christ has taken place. It is now my turn to ask you to be discerning Derek? Do not trust the Christian music scene or its media; I personally reject it utterly and with contempt.

    Sincerely, Chris Pitts

    1. Coming from a Sikh background, we believed Jesus was a white mans God.

      Watching God channel got me saved and healed from many diseases

      Then after being a secret Christian for a while, watching God channel got me bold to preach the gospel to my family and they all followed in.

      Mum was also healed watching the God channel. Then some of the extended family God to watch and good things happened and they got born again from worshiping idols.
      It’s amazing you are ignorant of the fruits of the ministry, and only looking at the bad things that happened through God channel.

      I know people who read the bible trying to get free from addictions and got free watching God channel.

      Only Christians take for granted what God has raised for their benefit. People who get saved from another religion are more appreciative of what God has done for them through these so called deceived ministry of God channel.

      Yes Rory has sinned, yet the Christians are responsible. God aske Cain where his brother was. Cain replied by a question.

      God uses ministries, anoints people, and if they fall, it’s our fault because we haven’t been able to take pressure of the people who are called to minister.

      Did not Paul circumcise a person even though he preached we are not to be circumcised?
      Was not Peter openly challenged by Paul when he made a mistake?
      Did not Paul and barnabas have a sharp disagreement over mark and split? Paul later called mark to come to him.

      I am glad the Lord Jesus Christ does not think like you. Or else we will all be in hell by now.

  30. By the way well done Alec as that sucking bitch Wendy make more damage to naïve people with her acting in front of the camera then you ever did, and WENDY god will have his revenge sooner or later and Alec is just the beginning a start to your downfall you MONSTER

  31. I wonder what kind of article a want to be heard writer could have written about King David after he had taken Uriah’s wife, got her pregnant. And then had Uriah murdered?

    YES, judgment begins with Gods house, but judgement is to be left in Gods hands. As disciples, followers of Christ, we are to love Him and display the goodness of God.

    God is not a man and He does not look upon things as man does, but He looks upon the heart! In the eyes of man, King David was an adulterer, a murderer. Our Patriarch Abraham gave his wife to another man not once but twice, what kind of article could the writer of this article have written about Abraham?

  32. Thank you Barry,

    I can see your point. My dilemma is the distance between a misplaced emphasis on ‘Grace’ and personal judgment.

    If people want to accuse me of judging, fine, but, what happens to the victims of years of ‘God Chanel’ programming to believe they will be healed and or, find a way out of desolate loneliness?

    What matters most (If it can be reasoned) to God the redemption of the perpetrator or the innocent victim? I’m open to persuasion.

    Peace,

    Chris Pitts

    1. Chris, as for your first question, I would refer you to Isaiah 53.

      As for the 2nd question. He shed His blood for both.

      Peace to you as well sir

      Barry

  33. Why are people so critical of other people when things go wrong?The only one that is perfect and was without sin is Jesus Christ. Look unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith. He who is without sin should cast the first stone. No Christain will in his correct senses support what has happened in the case of This evangelist. But what set Jesus apart was when he addressed the issue of the woman that was caught in the very act of adultery and he said finally …’go and sin no more’. That is the final. No matter who you are and whatever you have done if you genuinely repent of your sin the lord will forgive you and restore you. Are there going to be consequences for your actions you have to live with? yes indeed. That is why the bible says flee from all appearances of evil including judging your fellow man. The only thing you are permitted to do when anyone commits sin is not to hit the person with a hammer in the head but, to correct that person in love. At best pray for the person to be restored to the faith. Because after this life, there will be judgement which each and everyone of us will have to face.So be guided.

  34. Patrick,

    For what its worth, I’ll repeat myself. Yes we all crawl out of the same sewer. My squalor does not please me. But excuse me if I repeat that I am sick and tired of people using selective use of scripture over this issue.

    There are thousands of victims out there who don’t even know how to respond to the word ‘God’ anymore, damaged beyond human endurance!

    If the man who said, “Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness’ sake,” is going to bowl me ‘leg before wicket’ then, so be it.

    That man, Jesus turned over tables. His followers like Paul and Barnabas had violent disagreements; they certainly did not worship their own conclusions or hide behind scripture.

    When you ask the questions that this blog does and, furthermore, have witnessed the total destruction of people, that the Shepherding movement and other corrupt organizations have perpetrated, then I’m afraid that all the ‘theoretical correctness’ in the world is not helpful.

    And finally, as far as ‘judging’ is concerned, can you say that you have stood in my shoes and those of the victims?

    Sincerely,

    Chris Pitts

  35. I haven’t read Stephen’s post on this point yet. But Chris, I think Patrick is guilty of a degree of naivete, not deliberate unkindness. He doesn’t get that you and others have been badly hurt by people’s mistakes. And sometimes, it is important that mistakes should be stopped. If a surgeon is really bad about making mistakes, he may only be human, but his mistakes cause harm. Patrick hasn’t realised how much harm can be done by bullying. And in any case, that it is often quite deliberate.

  36. Thank You Jaspreet Virdee,

    Welcome to the blog my friend.

    I couldn’t help but notice that you are making just as many judgements on us as you claim we make?

    May I ask what you think the countless victims who have been broken by this (So called) ministry should do?

    I wish you well,

    Peace,

    1. When you follow the Lord Jesus Christ, you have an enemy Satan. He will destroy you through anything, even Godly ministries. Just because someone is asking you to sow your seed on TV does not mean give your rent money. I sent a lot of bills money to the channel and got into debts. They said if you gave you will not lack. I gave myself into huge debts. It’s funny how I greedily gave to get more yet was not even honouring my parents. That was my fault.
      We are to be led by the Spirit of God. When I came to find the truth, I forgave them and thanked God for the healings and salvation. I was back Out of debt very quickly.
      have you ever tried to be free from cocaine? I know someone who got free from it on an instant watching God channel.

      I wrote a letter To benny hinn for a certain relative who was in abusive relationship. I was sent an answer that everything will be well. That relative was murdered. Later I found out benny doesn’t even read the letters. Answers are computer generated. I was healed of a shoulder injury watching benny hinn. I forgave him and repented for not praying myself and helping that person myself with the gospel.
      so my advise to those who are hurt by these ministries is to follow what Jesus said: pray, do good, bless the people who abuse you even spiritually.

      Now I give a lot of money, however not bills money. They might put pressure but I follow the Lord Jesus and not them. Yet I thank God for how he used them to minister to me and get many healed saved and set free.

      Only born again people can forgive like this from the heart. The rest of the world is helpless when it comes to forgiving your enemies.

      Then The Lord Jesus will look at you proudly and say well done my faithful servant.

      The Lord Jesus can go through the ranks today and uproot all ungodliness from all ministries. Yet the bible says let the tares grow with the crops until the harvest lest even one piece of the harvest be destroyed Then tye tares will be taken and burned.

      Financial property message has been the tool of Satan for two main reasons:
      1.greedy ministers wanting more money so they raise funds always
      2. Selfish Christians don’t give until they are promised 7 blessing that will come on them if they give. So the true ministries are strapped for cash.

      The fault lies both on greedy ministers and selfish Christians.

      As far as abuse is concerned, the Holy Spirit led me many times when my pastor was trying to control me. But I ignored or didn’t listen because of my fear and insecurity. However I still tried my best for the pastor without violating my belief in the word and the Lord Jesus

      Those who have been broken should know that even though Paul planted and apollos watered it is God that gives the increase.
      If all the people of the world tomorrow fall into sin, it should not affect me because it is The Gospel that got me saved and Jesus my saviour not some man on th or pastor. So poeple who are broken by these ministries like me being one of them, were wrong in their understanding of the saviour and the bible. The Lord Jesus will not fore sake them but be with them and work to get them free, that is IF THEY WILL COPPRATE WITH THE LORD and not hold on to their hurts, but Learn the hard lesson to forgive and believe the power of the gospel

  37. Thank you Jaspreet Virdee,

    Thank you and Welcome to the blog once again.

    I see a great tangle ahead of us if we try and deal with too much at once.
    Perhaps it would be better if we concentrate on one issue at a time, like Scams set up by professing Christians?

    Jesus said, “Blessed are those that hunger and thirst after righteousness” In that one statement there is an ocean of meaning, and for us a banner to unite under?

    Let us agree to love and respect one and other?

    Peace

  38. Jesus did indeed say blessed are those that hunger and thirst after righteousness. Yet at another place it is written he that drinks normal water will thirst again, but whoever will drink of the water that I give him, he will not thirst again. The born again experience!

    I agree to love and respect you. However take note that when writing you cannot include body language and emotions. So there is a large room for me mis understanding you and you me. I am not a good writer. You see if we could communicate perfectly, we could avoid a lot of problems. That’s why when they built the Tower of Babel they could communicate properly and do whatever they decided to achieve. Then God confounded their communications.

    There is yet a professing Christian especially one preaching the gospel who does not at one time indulge in the flesh or under pressure do things that are contrary to his inward born again experience.

    When I came to this world, all I knew about God was what I was taught. Mostly it was my mum who tried to get me into Sikh prayers etc that’s what my reality of God was.

    When I heard the gospel I came to the truth and now I am a Christian or born again or saved or professing Christian or child of God: whatever your terminology may be regarding this experience.

    Then when I became a Christian all I knew about Christianity was spoon fed to me. I picked the good and the bad together. Somethings I learned were good, some things I learnt were bad. Yet I ignored the leading is the Holy Spirt correction. I just knew somethings were wrong, but ignored.

    Now the same with people called to service. When they come into ministry, they are taught by their predecessors. Both the good the bad and the ugly.

    Some sincerely believe what they are doing is not a scam. But that’s how they were taught.

    If you were born In Africa, in a witch doctors family, you might not find anything wrong with child sacrifice. That’s because your inward conscience is seared in that area. However when you find the truth, it matters under what ministry you find the truth in. If the people who led you to the Lord convince you that you don’t need to sacrifice your child, they might also teach you to be greedy and dissatisfied with you present financial status.

    Peter led astray even barnabas in the way he dealt with the Greeks when the Jews came.
    Now that doesn’t mean we take the letters of Peter out of the bible and say he was not really an apostle.

    So most people on tv have started things that take money like a Hoover. So when they are under pressure and unable to finance their personal projects or even God given projects, they begin to be quick to believe these special fund raisers who come to help them raise money.

    Now I am an Indian. We Indians believe the wife has to do what we say. Sisters are supposed to work in the kitchen. My sister when she comes from work has to cook. I when I come don’t have to and if I find my way in the kitchen, mom will get me out. I would watch tv and nobody thought that was wrong. Yet I was a Christian

    Now I have carried out that belief over to my Christian life until the Holy Spirit convicted me. However before that I was abusing my sister in a way. I did not know better. That doesn’t mean I am a false Christian or part of the shepherding movement.

    I was just ignorant of the word of God. Ofcourse there was an inward pull every time I told my sister to get the food ready and even complain when I don’t like the food, but I hadn’t learnt to listen to the Holy Spirit. He is here to help us inspite of our ignorance.

    So what you call scam is actually sponsoring the work of Christ to someone else. That’s how they were taught.

    You could raise money, and use it for Godly purpose, and keep nothing for yourself. However you might secretly be coveting in your heart the money. On the outward you have done nothing wrong, but on the inward you are already coveting. The same way you might sincerely be keeping back money thinking its God who is paying you.

    That’s why we have to be patient with them just as Jesus is patient with you.

    If I was Jesus, I would have straight away sent benny to hell for what he did. If Jesus was like me, He would have sent me to hell by now. I bought two choclates last year one for my sister and one for me. Because I wanted to eat both of them, I went to my room and ate them. My sister later found the wrappers. I was embarrassed and told her I will get her another one. She said not to bother because she had bleeding gums and doesn’t want chocolate to make it worse. The point is that I gave in to the flesh.

    Now if you take this indulgence of the flesh to a higher level, and I was a televangelist, I would be tempted to keep some money for myself.so Iam no better than them under temptation.

    However if they are corrected the right way,like I have been, people usually rise up to the level of doing right especially if they are born again.

  39. Having undergone many years of Bible Study, I finally in disatisfaction totally decided to attend only the Holy Spirit classes. What I found out was, in my Christian walk I had been looking in the wrong place all along. More like the Mark 4 own interpretation of the parable of the sower and Jesus’ interpretation .
    You see, Jesus clearly says the Kingdom is within us. Heaven is in me
    God is in me.
    Holy Spirit is in me
    Christ is in me
    I have All spiritual blessings in me.
    To find heaven or the doorway to heaven I go in not out.
    Inner peace is health.
    Church is not a building or a TV station. Im the church because Im the temple of the Holy Spirit.
    Im Gods son eternally in the image of my Father.
    How thrilling is all this!
    Absolute freedom

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