Quite frequently in safeguarding contexts we hear the expression ‘vulnerable adults’ or ‘adults at risk’. Without getting into detailed definitions of what these terms mean, we are referring to a group of people who, for various reasons, are in danger of different types of exploitation. The expression ‘at risk’ is one that is not usually a self-description. It is more likely to be used by someone in authority who wants to help and support someone in another group who may be in some sort of danger. Our perspective on what it means to be at risk or vulnerable, comes normally from someone on the outside looking in.
This current blog post is written from the perspective and experience of an individual who readily accepts that he is part of the ‘at risk’ group. Robert, as we shall call him, knows that a lifetime of mental fragility, caused originally by a brain injury at the age of 11, has placed him with a constant need for help and support. I am telling something of Robert’s story because it contains his alarming account of an encounter with a Christian congregation. The attempts by a church to heal Robert of his mental distress have considerably added to his pain. It is alarming to discover that apparently well-meaning folk are permitted to diagnose brain injury as demonic possession. Society should surely offer some protection for vulnerable adults like Robert from utterly dangerous practices like these. For me it is a privilege to be entrusted with Robert’s story. I ask the reader to enter imaginatively into Robert’s account as a way of gaining insight into the experience of the mentally impaired with their vulnerability. Most of us would recognise the inappropriateness of what Robert had to endure as a recipient of Christian ministry. That such things go on in in 2022 should be a cause of shame to all of us. The ‘demonic abuse’ label for the mentally ill may not be mainstream Anglican thinking, but it is probably not hard to find similar combinations of bullying and abusive practices in a CofE context. I tell Robert’s story as a way of offering a critique of a strand of teaching and theology. It threatens to severely damage members of vulnerable groups in our society and also bring discredit on the entire Church. Finding one’s voice in any situation of abuse in the Church is hard. The victims of abuse do not normally have the resources or stamina to fight their way to being heard by people of influence and authority in the Church. The same predicament is doubly true for the mentally afflicted. Allowing Robert, who has been through church-induced suffering, to find his voice, is something that Surviving Church is proud to do.
Before we get into Robert’s account, I should mention that I have received the CofE training offered to those who practise deliverance ministries and have acted as a spiritual deliverance adviser for two dioceses. I am alert to the possible reality of demons, but also I am aware of how they seem more frequently to be created by an overheated and possibly disturbed exercise of the human imagination.
Robert’s disastrous head injury at the age of 11, caused by a car accident, led to a later diagnosis of bipolar disorder. This required frequent visits to mental hospitals from the age of 20. For a time his life was marked by frequent episodes of self-harm, leaving him with scars all over the body. A salient fact that Robert shared with me, relevant to his being able later to reach out to a retired clergyman, was that in his earlier years he had obtained an A level in religious studies.
In the late autumn of 2021 now aged 44, Robert was introduced by a friend to a Pentecostal Church near his home in the North-East. After a lifetime of chronic depression and mental illness he was open to the possibility that a church might help in his desperate search for peace of mind. Robert was sufficiently knowledgeable about the Bible to notice that the local pastor, Bill, was using Scripture arbitrarily as a way of backing up his personal theories. Two themes seemed to dominate what Bill had to say. The first was a strong emphasis on Bill’s ‘visions’ and the second was to point out the need to resist the ubiquitous presence of demons. Unfortunately for Robert, the friend who had introduced him to the church told the pastor that he believed Robert to be possessed by a demon. In an interesting turn of phrase, the friend described the situation as ‘fertile ground to reap a harvest’. Bill then proceeded to exorcise Robert. The deliverance prayer brought in a variety of phrases which must have been confusing to Robert. The prayer mentioned ‘generational curses’ and ‘soul ties’ as well as ‘unholy oaths’ and witchcraft. In short, through a fairly short prayer, Robert was being initiated into a paranoid universe.
After the prayer, two acolytes, who were present started to speak in tongues. Bill then commanded the demon to name itself, but all Robert could do was to stare blankly at him. Bill then declared that the demon had left but there were more demons to be cast out. So the process was repeated week after week, the only difference being that Robert was sometimes responding to the prayers with an emotional outburst of tears.
It seems that Bill was new to performing exorcisms, but the level of drama created by Robert’s tears convinced him and other members of the congregation that this ministry was the new direction for the church. By word of mouth, people started coming to be exorcised and the acolytes decided that they too had developed the power to remove demons. Robert’s observation about the whole process was that it was a bit like a mesmerism show. After a time of chanting Bill would consult a ‘demon manual’ before telling the person in front of him what demons were there. Apparently one can consult a spirits list helpfully provided by Google. All the attempts at removing the demons were accompanied by suitable shouting and screaming to fit into the prevailing atmosphere.
Robert’s concern is probably the same as my readers. Is it ethical to take a group of highly vulnerable people, those with mental problems, the homeless, substance addicted, sexually abused etc and tell them that they have demons in them? Who would be responsible if a person left such a service and threw themselves under a train? Robert was also burdened or, should we say, controlled by being told the following. His brain injury had been healed by prayer and the demons banished. Nevertheless, the healing was provisional on his continuing to attend the church every week.
Further burdens were placed on Robert by the church. His demons could have been passed on to previous girlfriends through the act of intercourse. Also, a rape suffered by a previous girlfriend would have infected her with demons. Her demons would have mixed with Robert’s demons. Another abused girl was told that her demons could not depart unless she forgave her abuser. Another man with mental health problems was told that his family had been cursed by witchcraft a hundred years earlier.
In the middle of all this madness the two acolytes who had been present at the first exorcism and had decided that this was now their special calling to ‘practise’ exorcism and they wanted to use Robert as a guinea pig. They admitted that they did not know anything about it but carried on anyway. In one of these sessions, Robert had a laughing fit which led into a serious episode of self-harm with razor blades. Up to that point Robert had been free of this form of behaviour for twenty years.
Robert shared with me in his email a series of other themes of Pentecostal teaching that were presented to him. One of these mentioned the language of demonic strongholds. Ephesians 6 with its militaristic language was constantly appealed to. This chapter can be read as an instruction to Christians to see the whole Christian life as an endless battling with demons and Satan. Much of the new teaching was being reinforced by an institution called the Northern School for Prophetic Ministry. Here, for £350, members of the church could learn how to prophesy and cast out demons. It seems that Robert became a suitable ‘patient’ to practise on. No thought seems to have been given to the ethical implications of using him in this way.
Various other bizarre items of teaching on demons and their activity were mentioned. Many of them have become widespread in the States. Expressions like ‘demonic portals’ and the Courts of Heaven find their place on videos freely available on Youtube. My own tolerance for being up to date with this paranoid universe is probably limited, so I won’t weary my reader with sharing any more. Robert in writing to me was no doubt processing all the dreadful things that had happened to him and said to him. He was realising that he had found the means to escape from their grasp. But that was not true for all the others who had fallen into the trap of believing that this church could rescue them from their vulnerabilities. I finish with a plea from Robert in his own words. It is a plea to me personally, but I read it as a plea to the wider church from a vulnerable victim who has fallen victim to unethical, possibly illegal, behaviour which somehow claims the name of Christian. The only way that such behaviour can be checked is by other Christians (like us) standing up and saying clearly: Not in our Name.
I am writing this to you, because I believe what they are doing is morally wrong, in that they have no formal training in counselling. Yet they are telling vulnerable people that they are full of demons and they can cast them out. As I have previously stated they will character assassinate me, saying I’m paranoid, or alcohol-dependent (who isn’t after lock down?). But I give you a litmus test: ask them to swear on a Bible or on Jesus that what I have written is lies.
Very sad to hear Robert’s story which is all to familiar to my own and which happened in the Church of England 30 years ago. It is horrific that the teaching of deliverance ministry is still available at places like Ellell as teaching courses without any psychological supervision.
I am aware that some people say they benefit from deliverance ministry but this must be considered alongside the harm it does. The legacy of the psychological and spiritual abuse of unregualted deliverance ministry is lifelong and in my case far worse than the consequences of sexual abuse because I am afraid to die. I am afraid, however many people tell me I won’t, that I will end up being taken over by the demons inside me.
Demons play into our deepest fears so once the idea has taken a hold it is difficult to shift and patterns of self harm become a norm. Finding experienced psychiatric help is problematic but Robert is probably best asking for the help of a ritual abuse practitioner.
Without, in any way being judgmental I would like to know why Robert kept going back for more of the same? I did for over 3 years but looking back I wonder why I did, which of course feeds into the negativity of self blame.
It is a long and lonely road to recovery Robert I wish you a safe journey.
Sad to hear this, Athena. Praying God will find a way to reassure you that you won’t be taken over by demons now, at any time in the future, or when you die. ‘None shall snatch them out of my hand.’
Thank you for taking the time to read my story and leave a comment (for it is I, Robert). I have been to countless Psychiatrists, Neuro-Psychiatrist, Psychologists, etc, over the years, and I tried a new avenue.
I considered the circumstances that led me to the doors of Pentecostal Church so bizarre, that this couldn’t be an accident, there must have been some higher power behind it.
But to be in an environment where everything is explained as “demonic” made perfect sense to me. If it had just been me subject to these “exorcisms” then I would have had no problem. However I disagreed with the church telling vulnerable adults that they had “demons” in them as they had no training to do so.
Before I left, I made the parting comment:
Mathew 7:21-23
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my
Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils?
and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Good for you!
It was very wise of Robert to consult Stephen Parsons for support and advice. I wish him well. Moving away from these damaging interventions is vital, as a first step toward better mental health.
I’m all too familiar with the various descriptions of these “supernatural ministries” and it sickens me that this activity still carries on in various corners of Christendom. There will be those reading this who are staggered by the various claims and ideas involved, particularly those from more mainstream conservative or liberal congregations. But yes in 2022 this stuff still goes on all over the world.
Of course, if you’ve been injured or otherwise very unwell, the desire to be healed is very strong. We will do anything, believe anything, try anything. If God is mentioned and we’re sincere Christians, it reinforces the suggestions of the minister. If money changes hands, paradoxically this can strengthen faith further in the method’s validity.
When Jesus healed he often ushered people out of the room. No shouting, hyping up, mesmerising.
Does God heal today? Probably, but one thing I’m certain of is that it’s out of our control. Relax. Let God.
I’m sure there are proper practices to deal with the paranormal. Consult a deliverance expert like Stephen. The pseudo “science” of demonology touted around some churches is self-referenced twaddle. They can invent almost anything they want and then misuse their authority to propagate it. Naïve acolytes then blunder about practising on whichever poor souls they can find. It ought to be illegal. The cost of having a free society is the presence of numerous unregulated therapies and shamanistic ministers practising them. Buyer beware.
Thank you for taking an interest in my story, (for it is I, Robert).
On the subject of demons, they were constantly trying to “bind the demons” in the room. They believed that because Jesus and the various Disciples and Apostles could cast out demons, then this power was available to all.
They would read books of this nature:
“Breaking Spiritual Strongholds” by Dale A Robbins :
How to Break Strongholds and keep them Broken!
AUTHORITY — Every believer has the right to use the authority of Jesus' name to bind and take authority over
Satan's activities. "No one can enter a strong man's house and plunder his goods, unless he first binds the strong
man, and then he will plunder his house" (Mark 3:27). Issue a spoken command to the devil that he is bound and
he must leave the stronghold! Exercising authority in the name of Jesus will expel the Devil's influence. "And these
signs will follow those who believe: In My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues…"
(Mark 16:17).
INTERCESSION — Come together with other believers to pray and intercede against strongholds until you get
results. There is intensified power in the gathering of more believers. Prayer with fasting intensifies faith, and
faith will break strongholds. "Then the disciples came to Jesus privately and said, "Why could we not cast him
out? …However, this kind does not go out except by prayer and fasting" (Matthew 17:19,21).
DISPLACEMENT — Establish the presence of God. Where Satan has been commanded to leave, fill it up with God's
presence. Where the presence of the Lord is, the Devil isn't! Satan doesn't want to hang around where people are
lifting up Jesus in worship, in singing and prayer. The presence of the Lord displaces the Devil. "For what
fellowship has righteousness with lawlessness? And what communion has light with darkness?" (2 Corinthians
6:14).
RESISTANCE — Submit yourselves and draw close to God. The Bible says this is how we resist Satan and he will
flee. The Devil runs from submitted, yielded Christians who pray, fast, worship and humble themselves to follow
and obey God's Word. "Therefore submit to God. Resist the devil and he will flee from you" (James 4:7).
OCCUPATION — Give no place or vacancy to the Devil. With Satan departed, fill the void with God. Let
righteousness be the standard rule and behavior. Provide no pocket of rebellion, corruption or immorality in which
Satan can find refuge to rebuild his influence or strength. The scripture says to not "give place to the devil" (Eph.
4:27).
FORTIFICATION — Clothe yourself with God's armor. Take upon you daily, the full array of God's spiritual
equipment that you may maintain battle-ready status. With the shield of faith, the sword of the Spirit (God's
Word) and the other links of armor (Eph. 6:13-17), you will be ready to resist any satanic…
I do not doubt for a moment what ‘Robert’ has shared. In my, albeit limited, experience of such treatment when younger, I mercifully came to realise that such people were charlatans, and in some cases doing quite well financially!
What horrifies me reading this is that I am not shocked to know that it is still going on. And for those who entertain the false believe that this does not happen in the CofE of wider Anglicanism, I’m afraid it still does. Spiritual abuse and ritual abuse have the same roots as sexual abuse, namely a desire for power and control – fuelled by the gross vanity that it is blessed by the Almighty. It is not ! It is a dangerous thing to say ‘Thus saith the Lord’
Greater oversight of those who meddle in deliverance ministry within mainstream churches needs to be put in place. Independent churches need demonstrable oversight and accountability. It won’t stop certain elements, but weak bishops and leaders frightened to intervene helps no one.
‘such people were charlatans, and in some cases doing quite well financially!’ spot on Ross!
The emphasis on money is well worth drawing out. The love of it, is a root of all kinds of evil.
Even more “ordinary” healing ministry is frequently abused in C of e churches. I know of several disabled former parishioners who left because leaders saw them as fodder for “their ministry” and would insist on healing without consent. And in my present church a parishioner came to me desperate for help after spiritual abuse in a pastoral setting. The leader involved was probably too busy living out their fantasy “I am holy and should be admired for my holiness ” role to understand This was spiritual abuse, but does not appear to understand abuse in any form in any case. This In no way compares to the abuse described in this blog but I mention it to say that when safeguarding failures are continually covered up, it breeds a culture of contempt in regard to dealing with all kinds of abuse. And when many leaders are guilty of safeguarding failure themselves, they are in no position to intervene with authority in cases such as this. I can’t think of any other organisation coming into weekly contact with the public which permits and endorses narcissistic and power hungry leaders in such vast numbers as exist in churches.
I’m very sorry Robert and Trish, that you suffered in this way at a “christian” church. Not in my name.
Our incumbent where I used to be took it into her head to go alone to someone’s house, (wrong) and pronounced there was no evil presence, and went away! The afflicted person tried another church, and it appeared in the paper! Madame wasn’t named, but I still don’t understand why the Bishop didn’t carpet her for that one.
I always visited alone – there was no one who could have gone with me. One of the very few occasions I took a colleague was when the landlady of my local pub (a very seedy dive), asked me to come and exorcise the place.
It simply isn’t practical to suggest that clergy should never conduct visits on their own – if that’s what you were saying. Similarly, those of us who live alone see people in their own homes without an escort. Doctors and district nurses also conduct home visits on their own, as do financial advisers, solicitors, and any number of other professionals.
Unless you meant clergy should always be accompanied only to conduct possible exorcisms?
Yes, Janet. Deliverance matters. The guidelines say never go alone.
And not clergy specifically, anyone.
Agreed. I took your comment to mean that clergy should never visit anyone alone – which is impractical.
This sounds freakishly similar to the blog writing vicar who outed me online, slandered me and previous to that also prayed with me in the weirdest way I have ever experienced saying that God would repay me for the years the locusts had stolen. It was utterly weird and I wouldn’t pray with her again after that. I recognised immediately that this was no word from God, had nothing to do with me or my life- and felt very unsafe. I assumed in hindsight that this had something to do with her being all exercised about stereotypes of LGBTQ ‘lifestyles’ despite proclaiming herself an accepting evangelical. But I did also wonder if she’d been involved in deliverance ministry at some point, as it was all so far out of my comfort zone.
It does really make me wonder as the bishop i reported to was very disinterested in taking any action, despite my having reported the blog to the police (gmp)
Thanks for taking an interest in my story (for it is I, Robert).
The phrase you used about ” years the locusts had stolen” was one that was frequently used in the Pentecostal Church.
It’s been well used in charismatic circles across denominations, in my experience. I don’t know if it still is, but I suspect it might be.
I’ve spent the afternoon looking at Charismatic Churches/Deliverance Ministries online, and I didn’t realise there was so many across the country.
To be honest I’m a tad crestfallen, so many charlatans able to influence people with their “visions”.
Thank you for this post, Stephen. I suspect that we both did the same C of E training for this odd bit of the ministry of healing. That’s really the point of my comment – training, accountability and authorisation. The C of E and Roman Catholic Church are the only denominations (to my knowledge) who have any of that in place. Since a terrible incident in the mid 20th century in another denomination which resulted on a death arising from deliverance ministry, the C of E’s House of Bishops acted really quite swiftly to regulate it. Every Diocese has an authorised team who are trained, insured, and are accountable directly to the Bishop (in our case the Diocesan). No exorcism of a person can take place without the specific permission of the Bishop, and then only as a last resort. In this Diocese curates learn about deliverance ministry in their IME training and how to get advice and help as well as the limits of their pastoral ministry in this area of healing. I suspect this happens in all Dioceses. As I am sure those of you who have experience in this ministry know, the great majority of cases arise from physical reasons (normal movements of wooden floors as the temperature drops and rodents behind the skirting board are two that come to my mind), physical and/or mental ill health, and medication. Each Diocese usually has medical experts to call on for advice. Most cases are resolved by healing in the form of a house blessing, ordinary pastoral ministry or reconciliation ministry. The focus of deliverance ministry is on facilitating the healing of the person(s) involved – always with their informed agreement – and definitely not causing harm. Sometimes, once every 5-10 years perhaps, something more concerning appears. So that’s the theory of how it works in the C of E. But there are grey areas where ‘prayer ministry’ gets very close to deliverance ministry where boundaries could be crossed by clergy and other ministers, in spite of all the training and awareness that a Diocese may put out there. In other denominations, ‘spiritualists’ and independent ‘healers’ it looks much more like the wild West – and, as Stephen recounts, the results of that ‘healing’ can end up on the vicarage doorstep. I find it a fascinating and deep area of ministry to reflect on.
Yes. That’s what I learned. I was at a prayer meeting when it became clear that the item brought forward was a deliverance matter. The leader interrupted, and on a pretext, split us into two groups. The group with the woman asking for the prayer included me, because I was the only other woman, and because I’d done the training. And we followed all the guidance, including asking the woman for permission to refer her to her incumbent. Whom fortunately, she liked. So she could be followed up later. She was, of course, suffering from clinical depression, loneliness following bereavement, that sort of thing. But I wasn’t the only one feeling there may have been another component, as it were. I wasn’t kept in the picture, no reason why I should have been. But I know the leader on that day did contact the incumbent, and she was alright so far!
I’m glad to hear all curates are now trained in deliverance ministry guidelines – is that the case in every diocese, I wonder?
I agree that it’s the grey areas that can get very problematic. Ministries such as Sozo, for example, blur the lines in a way which I suspect is deliberate. So they never quite say a person is ‘possessed’, and they don’t talk much about exorcism, but they teach that most people need deliverance from the influence of evil spirits. Sozo methods have been taught and practised in several leading Anglican churches, including within the Holy Trinity Brompton network. I don’t know if they still are, but they were when I blogged here about Sozo a couple of years ago.
Thanks, Janet, for the reference to Sozo, which I wasn’t aware of. Having looked them up, I wonder why churches supposedly part of the C of E would use that approach and language. Unless it was back in the 1960s or so before the C of E got itself more organised.
Many churches which are part of the C of E, and many ordained Anglican clergy, use what might loosely be termed ‘charismatic healing ministries’. And among these ministries, the models taught by the late John Wimber and his Vineyard churches, and by Bethel Sozo, are fairly prominent. There are others, such as Ellel, Jean Rees, and Elijah House.
I’ve spent a little time on research this morning: the Bethel Sozo list of churches using their format was never very good, and doesn’t seem to be up to date. The pandemic will have made this kind of in-person prayer ministry pretty difficult. I’ve checked the websites of three large charismatic churches who featured Sozo prayer on their websites 3 years ago. None now does so, though if you type ‘Sozo’ into the search field of one you do get a link. The other two churches no longer have a search field on their websites.
HTB (Holy Trinity Brompton) has a page on prayer ministry which is quite interesting (https://www.htb.org/prayerministry). In order to join their ministry team you have to:
1) watch 3 short videos, all under 15 minutes. These describe the theology behind their practice (theology which acknowledges a debt to Wimber and echoes the language of Sozo); their model of prayer ministry; and safeguarding.
2) fill in a brief online form giving name, contact details, HTB service attended, and not much else.
3) attend a day’s in-person training.
You will then be assigned to a prayer team. This qualifies you to pray alone with someone, though they do emphasise this must be in a ‘public space’.
HTB network churches form a large and growing number of C of E parishes, and the Church Commissioners have invested millions into expanding it. So we can say this is genuinely C of E – however disturbed by that we might be.
Following your post, Janet, I visited HTB’s website to have a look. Their prayer ministry practice is very similar to how we were trained at the open evangelical Anglican training college I attended. The significant difference is that we were advised to work in pairs (complementary genders) whereas it appears that one on one prayer ministry is the norm at HTB.
I find the language (eg, demons, evil spirits, witches) used or encountered in prayer and deliverance ministry something I need to consider, in how we use words that reflect our conceptual framework. But I haven’t thought through this sufficiently at the moment to comment usefully.
You might look at Walter Wink’s work on the The Powers – either his award-winning trilogy or the one-volume ‘The Powers that Be’. The latter is available second-hand from AbeBooks for £7 incl P&P; other sellers have it for a little more. Wink reframes the ancient concepts for our age, and owes a debt (I suspect) to Jung.
Another book I’ve found helpful is psychiatrist Scott Peck’s ‘People of the Lie’, about evil in human personality. Peck believes that evil is real but almost always human; demonic possession possible but a very rare phenomenon.
I think I agree with Peck!!
I think I have mentioned Monty Barker before who with a colleague did an extended study on people who were supposedly possessed by demons or evil spirits. . There is a book “From the Psychiatrists Chair (which I haven’t read) but a paper of his can be seen here:-https://biblicalstudies.org.uk/pdf/churchman/094-03_246.pdf
Thanks, Leslie – worth reading.
This extract of Barker’s does seem helpful to me because he seems to be saying he doesn’t believe we can be taken over. But on the other hand we retain responsibility for our actions. For those who are suffering, this will take some working out of course, and won’t be easy, but it will help us dismiss some of the nonsense assertions made by others.
Having trained in medicine, and knowing something of mental ill health, it’s easy to see how people can confuse symptoms of this with the supernatural afflictions. Indeed even an expert can fall into this trap. There’s a great deal we don’t know about either of these areas. There’s a simple principle in medicine (albeit not always adhered to) which is : “First, do no harm”.
I also participated in the Christian healing ministry for many years, but latterly came to the conclusion that we risked harm even by some of the grandiose pronouncements we made from the front, for example the promise that Christ’s healing is available to all. Experience began to teach me that youthful enthusiasm (and ignorance) could actually hurt people, creating false expectations and clumsy words could too.
On the other hand there is nothing to stop any of us offering gentle friendship and support to those in need, and to offer private prayers removing the overuse of “suggestion” which can seed into a confidence trick. I just don’t think God needs this from us, and neither do the afflicted, whatever the aetiology.
In terms of training, the medical world throws you into A&E with some of the most brutal incidents and illnesses to deal with,but under supervision, before you are “allowed out” unaccompanied to minister to the sick yourself. Why is it then that some of our churches employ almost the least experienced to some of the most difficult areas to discern?
I love the book Christian Set Yourself Free by Graham Powell, because as the title implies, Graham’s account of how he learnt to cast out his own demons is a useful model for people that want to get free. Basically, it’s a question of claiming the promises in Scripture. For example, “Scripture says my body is the temple of the Holy Spirit, and it is, because I have invited him to take up residence, so get off me you horrible fear!”
I have benefitted from using Graham’s approach on myself and commend it.
The pronouncement of people as having the “spirit of” this or that, of a demon here and there, is just another simple but potent way for a manipulative leader to assert control over weaker others. It’s a dream spanner for our good old narcissist obviously.
This is one reason I’m in favour of external regulation and oversight. In extreme cases I’d like to see legislation too. Because largely, these pronouncements are based on one person’s “discernment” which could easily be just making it up. On the flip side is a growing body of evidence in wider society of the harm being done.
(I am Robert)
On one occasion, the church was talking about demons and I was trying to explain about mental illness. It was like banging my head against a brick wall.
I drew a pie-chart divided into equal quarters, in then labelled each section: Brain Damage, Mental Illness, “Demons”, Kavan.
I told them that these four sections represented my conscious and that even if they did banish “the demons”, then the small part of my sanity would still be oppressed by the mental illness and brain damage.
They told me, that the brain damage was healed because of the healing hands, prayer, etc, and the mental illness was simply a manifestation of the demonic influence and that would end when the “demons” left.
It was literally like living in the Middle-Ages.
However the ironic fact was that for all this talk of demonic influences they were “whatsapp’ing” each other on smart phones made in factories where the working and safety conditions are “questionable”.
Thanks for this Kavan. I’ve found people rarely understand mental ill health, even those trained in medicine for example. But many are becoming more open and understanding about it. Church people tend to be behind in their understanding, compared to those outside. I’ve been cautious about sharing anything with them, because of the type of responses you outline above.
On this site Survivors tend to show solidarity. Stephen moderates the site when some contributors don’t. A third category hasn’t realised that they themselves have suffered, but have repressed their experiences of trauma etc and are perhaps in denial. Others are quietly watching.
You are among friends here, but it can be a bit prickly at times too. Thanks for sharing!
People do the “there’s obviously something wrong with you” , too. As if that means you’re not entitled to support. Welcome to Surviving Church!
If I may throw my tuppence worth in, this is old, and sadly familiar ground for me. Open admission – I believe in, and hopefully practice the gifts of the Holy Spirit; I’m not ashamed to say that, just so as you know where I’m coming from. Excesses of the sort Robert experienced only served to drive me away from ‘organised charismata’ events and individuals; they grew more and more obsessed with experience hunting. Fortunately, our Father promised to lead us into ‘all truth’, and there is a big difference between a genuine experience of the Holy Spirit and the travelling circus which the movement declined into.
Sadly, the link between demonic possession and mental illnesses is only too well established – I’ve come across it primarily in ‘new churches’ of various types, particularly charismatic and fundamentalist evangelicals, which does include Pentecostals. Once into a belief system, either individual or organisation, it is very, very difficult to get it out again.
I live not too far from the site of a former mental asylum. When ‘spiritual mapping’ was the ‘in’ craze, a local pastor produced such a map, showing the whole area to be heavily oppressed demonically and cursed with a ‘spirit of spiritual heaviness’ for Christian outreach, clearly centred on the former asylum site….. I also heard it said, very ‘authoritatively’ about the town of Bodmin in Cornwall, for the same reason. A lady I know, who’s rather more Pentecostally orientated than I am, believes it implicitly – it was drummed into her in various churches and a Bible college.
Someone mentioned Ellel – I once knew a vicar who subsequently worked on their team, and from all accounts he took the idea of possession very seriously, believing the spirits could enter through our bodily openings (whose traffic is usually in the other direction).
Robert gets it spot on. Medieval superstition, dressed up with a coat of Christian varnish. In my experience these ideas peaked in the mid 1980s, when much of the charismatic movement became seriously paranoid – just about anything and everything had demons attached. I remember the Wakefield case someone mentioned very well – having known a group of amateur exorcists myself, it didn’t surprise me. Read the books ‘Is God Still an Englishman’ and ‘Charismania’ to see where it can lead.
Any kind of ministry – particularly in private, needs to be done in pairs – one male, one female, to protect the workers from slander or other risk – we do it in CAP visits. Going alone is asking for trouble, and I’m surprised HTB approve of it. If involved with public prayer ministry, it’s preferable to ‘minister’ kneeling, on a level with the ‘customer’ – its good psychology, visually making us equasl. We are on a level, both humbly dependant on a loving Father to respond as He knows best. Blanket, formulaic assumptions about healing are very dangerous – God doesn’t work like that, instead treating us all as individuals…
(Robert)An interesting reply. I came to a similar conclusion to yourself regarding the mental institution argument. I openly said to them before I left, “You must believe that the patients in the local hospital are full of demons? So using your logic, you would hypothetically be able to go in there and cleanse the entire place of evil spirits?”
One aspect they were particularly obsessed about was: Generational Curses.
A white Afrikaans woman in her 50’s was convinced that she had to repent for relatives who were involved in Apartheid.
The catch, of course, is that the patients would need to WANT to be freed before they could start – there’s always a cop-out with this kind of thinking.
Generational curses were common in churches influenced by certain charismanic preachers in the 80’s – the idea was that we are affected by things our forebears did a century or so past – “Did you have a great-great grandfather who was a Freemason’ sort of line. Sometimes there may be an element of truth in it, depending on what they’d been involved with, of course, but it needs a very detailed knowledge of your family history. Like a lot of this, you become open to autosuggestion and “words of knowledge” produced by someone with ‘authority’ – which gets worse if the church is the sort with heavy ‘headship’ dogmas, particularly towards women. Personally, I find the whole argument about repenting for the sins of past generations a rather ambiguous one. I’ve known more liberal/socially aware Christians who feel the need to do it on behalf of past abuse, such as slavery or the history of Britain in Ireland for example, but am not totally convinced about its effectivness, or validity.